This is an area where passions run deep, and near fist fights can be a result of an offhand remark about someones truck. I personally lean towards Ford products, but I also believe that if someone wants to run an Isuzu Trooper, then that is their right.
That being said, let me explain my own tendencies, before showing what I think are real world statistics. When I was in high school, muscle cars were all I ever thought about, when I wasn't thinking about girls that is, but you get the picture. Anyway, Camaros, Novas, Chevelles, etc. were the cars that I thought were best. I've owned a 1972 Nova, a 1973 Malibu, a 1976 Monte Carlo, a 1976 Malibu, and a 1973 Impala, not to mention various Buicks, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles. For a few years after graduation, about 10 to be exact, the Chevy bias stayed with me , and followed me into four wheeling. Then I started to see which trucks actually held up better in the rough stuff. Chevys with 10 bolt rear axles fared the worst, and when they are matched up against anything bigger than 35 inch all terrains, they give up, almost without a fight. The 12 bolt doesn't seem to be a lot more forgiving, although in the year
s that Chevy used a Dana 44 in the front, they did a little better than the 12 bolt.
Dodges, as far as I know, ran their own rear axle in 1/2 ton trucks, and they actually seem to hold together better than the 12 bolt in the Chevy. All three trucks ran Dana 44s in the front, and up until 1980, they were all plagued by weak long side axles. In 1980 Ford started running the TTB front axle, and I have seen them stand up to incredible abuse. To me, for the money, you can't find a tougher front axle from a 1/2 ton. Early to mid eighties Fords can be bought for a song, and if you happen to get one with the 8.8 inch rear, you can run it till it breaks, then upgrade to a 9 incher.
Don't get me wrong here, any truck you can afford and you are happy with, is the truck for you, but I think best bang for your buck comes from the Ford camp.
Ford 3/4 ton trucks made form 80 to 97, and this applies to some newer and older trucks, came with Sterling 10.25, Dana 60, or a Dana 70 rear axle, with some 1 ton trucks coming through with a Dana 80 rear axle, but the most common axle seems to be the sterling 10.25 and 10.5. These axles run cheaper than Dana 60s or a corporate 14 bolt axle. Now consider the sizes of these axles. The Dana 60 has a 9.75" ring gear, and the pinion shaft is 1.626" with 29 splines. The 14 bolt is bigger with a 10.5 inch ring gear and a 1.75 30 spline pinion shaft. A Sterling has either a 10.25 or 10.5 inch ring gear with a 1.94" 31 spline pinion shaft. Aftermarket gear sets run pretty close between all of the bigger axles. The king of cheap in aftermarket upgrades is by far the Ford 9 inch.
While even a Dana 44 can be made nearly bulletproof, the money you have to spend on axles, u-joints and fears, not to mention the cost of axle housing upgrades, and you still have the small brakes and a semi-floating axle. I don't think it to be out of line to take a junkyard axle, put it in your truck, change the oil, and go mudding. If it makes you feel better to rebuild the whole thing, then do it, but I'm
going to save as much money as I can to buy other things I think are more important, like oil and gas... and beer.
While Chevy is certainly very simple in the motor swap areas, Ford, and Dodge for that matter, is only a little more complicated. Its true you can bolt a 454 to a transmission that once held a 4.3 litre v6, but will that tranny hold up to the abuse? So it seems harder on Ford because you can't put a 460 where a 302 came out of without changing to a different transmission, but really, the same could be said for Chevy or Dodge.
What a lot of people don't know is that even on Chevy, the differences in bell housing inside dimensions can be very frustrating. Another thing to consider is internal or external balancing, as this will affect what flywheel to use. The differences between exhaust manifolds, rear oil seals and alternator and power steering brackets, as well as different water pumps, can take away any engine swap advantage Chevy has. I really can't see where Chevy is better than any other truck.
Stock horsepower figures for Ford engines generally run higher for comparable engines, but it;s the torque that we are interested in. A 5.8 has about 310 lbs , and a 5.7 has about 300, but the 5.7 torque peak comes a lot higher in the power band. Other engines have similar comparisons. The hp specs for a Dodge can be a little hard to find, but early in the eighties, these trucks were known as dogs, but by the mid nineties, the small blocks started to make good power, in the area of 260 horse for a 5.9.
As far as my own observations, the 5.0 Ford is probably the toughest v8 engine I have ever seen. I have seen them run almost dry of oil, so much so that they squeaked, and all that was done to this particular engine was to put in 4 quarts of oil, and head on our merry way. That truck was still running when I sold it 2 years later, and had been run out of oil at least 4 times.
I know it would have been fairly easy to replace a valve cover gasket, but you know a mechanics rig is the most neglected.
To me a stock 350 is a slug, that has never lived up to the hype. A 305 is a tougher engine that makes only a little less power, and near the same torque. Sure a lot can be done to a sbc for cheaper than any other engine, but who wants to start at a disadvantage, when the point is to get mudding.
When it comes time to modify your engine, you are at a real advantage with a sbc, but a small Fords, or even a small Dodge for that matter can be built for only a little more. I guess if you are just going to throw money at your truck, then it really doesn't matter what brand you have. To me the point is to have fun without breaking the bank.
A friend of mine built his truck for 500.00 dollars, not counting tires that he already owned. It is a 1989 f250 with a 460 automatic. I will be doing a whole article on this truck soon.The point is that he built an extreme performing truck that has no trouble roasting 40 inch tires, for about the cost of one paycheck.
I am not trying to make Chevy owners feel defensive about their trucks, I am just putting forth my own 2 cents, and in my experience, the Ford just hold together longer, perform better, and can just stand up to more abuse than Dodge or Chevy.
Do I think that I can change any one's mind about their ride? About as much as I think someone could change mine.
The whole Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge thing is very important to our sport. Good natured ribbing is all part of the fun, and I think it would be less fun without it. The bottom line is that it is about the camaraderie and the chance to have real fun without hurting anyone.
Have fun and tell me what you think.
Happy Mudding.
That being said, let me explain my own tendencies, before showing what I think are real world statistics. When I was in high school, muscle cars were all I ever thought about, when I wasn't thinking about girls that is, but you get the picture. Anyway, Camaros, Novas, Chevelles, etc. were the cars that I thought were best. I've owned a 1972 Nova, a 1973 Malibu, a 1976 Monte Carlo, a 1976 Malibu, and a 1973 Impala, not to mention various Buicks, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles. For a few years after graduation, about 10 to be exact, the Chevy bias stayed with me , and followed me into four wheeling. Then I started to see which trucks actually held up better in the rough stuff. Chevys with 10 bolt rear axles fared the worst, and when they are matched up against anything bigger than 35 inch all terrains, they give up, almost without a fight. The 12 bolt doesn't seem to be a lot more forgiving, although in the year
s that Chevy used a Dana 44 in the front, they did a little better than the 12 bolt.Dodges, as far as I know, ran their own rear axle in 1/2 ton trucks, and they actually seem to hold together better than the 12 bolt in the Chevy. All three trucks ran Dana 44s in the front, and up until 1980, they were all plagued by weak long side axles. In 1980 Ford started running the TTB front axle, and I have seen them stand up to incredible abuse. To me, for the money, you can't find a tougher front axle from a 1/2 ton. Early to mid eighties Fords can be bought for a song, and if you happen to get one with the 8.8 inch rear, you can run it till it breaks, then upgrade to a 9 incher.
Don't get me wrong here, any truck you can afford and you are happy with, is the truck for you, but I think best bang for your buck comes from the Ford camp.
Ford 3/4 ton trucks made form 80 to 97, and this applies to some newer and older trucks, came with Sterling 10.25, Dana 60, or a Dana 70 rear axle, with some 1 ton trucks coming through with a Dana 80 rear axle, but the most common axle seems to be the sterling 10.25 and 10.5. These axles run cheaper than Dana 60s or a corporate 14 bolt axle. Now consider the sizes of these axles. The Dana 60 has a 9.75" ring gear, and the pinion shaft is 1.626" with 29 splines. The 14 bolt is bigger with a 10.5 inch ring gear and a 1.75 30 spline pinion shaft. A Sterling has either a 10.25 or 10.5 inch ring gear with a 1.94" 31 spline pinion shaft. Aftermarket gear sets run pretty close between all of the bigger axles. The king of cheap in aftermarket upgrades is by far the Ford 9 inch.
While even a Dana 44 can be made nearly bulletproof, the money you have to spend on axles, u-joints and fears, not to mention the cost of axle housing upgrades, and you still have the small brakes and a semi-floating axle. I don't think it to be out of line to take a junkyard axle, put it in your truck, change the oil, and go mudding. If it makes you feel better to rebuild the whole thing, then do it, but I'm
going to save as much money as I can to buy other things I think are more important, like oil and gas... and beer.While Chevy is certainly very simple in the motor swap areas, Ford, and Dodge for that matter, is only a little more complicated. Its true you can bolt a 454 to a transmission that once held a 4.3 litre v6, but will that tranny hold up to the abuse? So it seems harder on Ford because you can't put a 460 where a 302 came out of without changing to a different transmission, but really, the same could be said for Chevy or Dodge.
What a lot of people don't know is that even on Chevy, the differences in bell housing inside dimensions can be very frustrating. Another thing to consider is internal or external balancing, as this will affect what flywheel to use. The differences between exhaust manifolds, rear oil seals and alternator and power steering brackets, as well as different water pumps, can take away any engine swap advantage Chevy has. I really can't see where Chevy is better than any other truck.
Stock horsepower figures for Ford engines generally run higher for comparable engines, but it;s the torque that we are interested in. A 5.8 has about 310 lbs , and a 5.7 has about 300, but the 5.7 torque peak comes a lot higher in the power band. Other engines have similar comparisons. The hp specs for a Dodge can be a little hard to find, but early in the eighties, these trucks were known as dogs, but by the mid nineties, the small blocks started to make good power, in the area of 260 horse for a 5.9.
As far as my own observations, the 5.0 Ford is probably the toughest v8 engine I have ever seen. I have seen them run almost dry of oil, so much so that they squeaked, and all that was done to this particular engine was to put in 4 quarts of oil, and head on our merry way. That truck was still running when I sold it 2 years later, and had been run out of oil at least 4 times.
I know it would have been fairly easy to replace a valve cover gasket, but you know a mechanics rig is the most neglected.
To me a stock 350 is a slug, that has never lived up to the hype. A 305 is a tougher engine that makes only a little less power, and near the same torque. Sure a lot can be done to a sbc for cheaper than any other engine, but who wants to start at a disadvantage, when the point is to get mudding.
When it comes time to modify your engine, you are at a real advantage with a sbc, but a small Fords, or even a small Dodge for that matter can be built for only a little more. I guess if you are just going to throw money at your truck, then it really doesn't matter what brand you have. To me the point is to have fun without breaking the bank.
A friend of mine built his truck for 500.00 dollars, not counting tires that he already owned. It is a 1989 f250 with a 460 automatic. I will be doing a whole article on this truck soon.The point is that he built an extreme performing truck that has no trouble roasting 40 inch tires, for about the cost of one paycheck.
I am not trying to make Chevy owners feel defensive about their trucks, I am just putting forth my own 2 cents, and in my experience, the Ford just hold together longer, perform better, and can just stand up to more abuse than Dodge or Chevy.
Do I think that I can change any one's mind about their ride? About as much as I think someone could change mine.
The whole Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge thing is very important to our sport. Good natured ribbing is all part of the fun, and I think it would be less fun without it. The bottom line is that it is about the camaraderie and the chance to have real fun without hurting anyone.
Have fun and tell me what you think.
Happy Mudding.
